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	<title>Comments on: Shape of US economy Shows that Spending Your Way Out of Depression Doesn&#8217;t Work</title>
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	<link>http://www.moneymorning.com.au/20091002/shape-of-us-economy-shows-that-spending-your-way-out-of-depression-doesnt-work.html</link>
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		<title>By: Peter Fraser</title>
		<link>http://www.moneymorning.com.au/20091002/shape-of-us-economy-shows-that-spending-your-way-out-of-depression-doesnt-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-1319</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Fraser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 03:08:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com.au/?p=2316#comment-1319</guid>
		<description>PuntPal - it is affordability and availability of credit, not price that govern demand.

You may get your correction after a few rate rises, time will tell.

Sayce is just oscillating between comments on an oversupply and a huge undersupply that will cause serious housing shortages in the future. The brilliance in that statement is only in its controversail nature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PuntPal &#8211; it is affordability and availability of credit, not price that govern demand.</p>
<p>You may get your correction after a few rate rises, time will tell.</p>
<p>Sayce is just oscillating between comments on an oversupply and a huge undersupply that will cause serious housing shortages in the future. The brilliance in that statement is only in its controversail nature.</p>
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		<title>By: PuntPal</title>
		<link>http://www.moneymorning.com.au/20091002/shape-of-us-economy-shows-that-spending-your-way-out-of-depression-doesnt-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-1317</link>
		<dc:creator>PuntPal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 02:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com.au/?p=2316#comment-1317</guid>
		<description>etch, PF and cb - once again you are ignoring the point Kris is making when he described the possible future for many Australian&#039;s if house prices continue to rise...I actually think Kris&#039;s provocative statement is brilliant:
&quot;In reality, if the housing shortage is that bad, and the population growth as high as they claim, we aren’t looking at a get rich quick scheme, we’re looking at slums and ghettoes as 35 million people squeeze into 7 million houses – not counting the holiday homes of course&quot;

Why is this statement so clever? Because it highlights the stupidity of what the spruikers are claiming about the Oz property market.

I have consistently pointed out the fallacy that Oz house prices will continue to rise as long as supply can’t keep up with vague notions of underlying demand. Implicit in your claims, is a belief that the ability of your average Australian to afford a house is irrelevant. You seem to think that even if houses are 12 times the average income in Oz, house prices can continue to rise…without explaining where these new buyers are going to come from??

So here are some simple questions, because the rubbish you clowns have written above deserves to be confronted head on (I have placed them in capital letters, so you appreciate at how frustrated your recycled comments are becoming).

WHERE ARE THE NEW HOME BUYERS GOING TO COME FROM IN 2010 AND BEYOND?

WHY DO CONSISTENTLY IGNORE THE ISSUE OF HOUSING AFFORDIBILITY AND HOW THIS ISSUE WILL AFFECT HOUSING POLICY GOING FORWARD?

WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO QUOTE ECONOMISTS THAT WORK FOR THE BIG OZ BANKS, WHEN IT IS CLEAR THAT THE OZ BANKS ARE CLEARLY DESPERATE TO KEEP THE PYRAMID SCHEME GOING – DON’T YOU THINK THIS IS A WEAK SOURCE OF ‘EVIDENCE’?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>etch, PF and cb &#8211; once again you are ignoring the point Kris is making when he described the possible future for many Australian&#8217;s if house prices continue to rise&#8230;I actually think Kris&#8217;s provocative statement is brilliant:<br />
&#8220;In reality, if the housing shortage is that bad, and the population growth as high as they claim, we aren’t looking at a get rich quick scheme, we’re looking at slums and ghettoes as 35 million people squeeze into 7 million houses – not counting the holiday homes of course&#8221;</p>
<p>Why is this statement so clever? Because it highlights the stupidity of what the spruikers are claiming about the Oz property market.</p>
<p>I have consistently pointed out the fallacy that Oz house prices will continue to rise as long as supply can’t keep up with vague notions of underlying demand. Implicit in your claims, is a belief that the ability of your average Australian to afford a house is irrelevant. You seem to think that even if houses are 12 times the average income in Oz, house prices can continue to rise…without explaining where these new buyers are going to come from??</p>
<p>So here are some simple questions, because the rubbish you clowns have written above deserves to be confronted head on (I have placed them in capital letters, so you appreciate at how frustrated your recycled comments are becoming).</p>
<p>WHERE ARE THE NEW HOME BUYERS GOING TO COME FROM IN 2010 AND BEYOND?</p>
<p>WHY DO CONSISTENTLY IGNORE THE ISSUE OF HOUSING AFFORDIBILITY AND HOW THIS ISSUE WILL AFFECT HOUSING POLICY GOING FORWARD?</p>
<p>WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO QUOTE ECONOMISTS THAT WORK FOR THE BIG OZ BANKS, WHEN IT IS CLEAR THAT THE OZ BANKS ARE CLEARLY DESPERATE TO KEEP THE PYRAMID SCHEME GOING – DON’T YOU THINK THIS IS A WEAK SOURCE OF ‘EVIDENCE’?</p>
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		<title>By: cb</title>
		<link>http://www.moneymorning.com.au/20091002/shape-of-us-economy-shows-that-spending-your-way-out-of-depression-doesnt-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-1297</link>
		<dc:creator>cb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 02:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com.au/?p=2316#comment-1297</guid>
		<description>ah, yes, and to go with that, it is not difficult to see why this has been such a money spinner for the NSW labour party, with ministers overruling local council decisions for big bucks from developers. So, the motivation to restrict and control  development at a state political level has been extra strong, and may not change in this state until the NSW labour party is thrown on the junk heap as they should have been thrown a very long time ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ah, yes, and to go with that, it is not difficult to see why this has been such a money spinner for the NSW labour party, with ministers overruling local council decisions for big bucks from developers. So, the motivation to restrict and control  development at a state political level has been extra strong, and may not change in this state until the NSW labour party is thrown on the junk heap as they should have been thrown a very long time ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandra</title>
		<link>http://www.moneymorning.com.au/20091002/shape-of-us-economy-shows-that-spending-your-way-out-of-depression-doesnt-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-1296</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 02:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com.au/?p=2316#comment-1296</guid>
		<description>I had a look at the link - thanks for that.

I agree that there is way too little building going on ...
And it doesnt take an Einstein to figure out why this is...
It&#039;s due to the meddling ways and market manipulation of the interfering socialist state-, municipal- and federal governments who put up a labyrinth of red tape,  and excessive fees and charges that discourage land and property development.  Hence too little new development.

Get rid of the thieving pollies and Bob&#039;s ya uncle!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a look at the link &#8211; thanks for that.</p>
<p>I agree that there is way too little building going on &#8230;<br />
And it doesnt take an Einstein to figure out why this is&#8230;<br />
It&#8217;s due to the meddling ways and market manipulation of the interfering socialist state-, municipal- and federal governments who put up a labyrinth of red tape,  and excessive fees and charges that discourage land and property development.  Hence too little new development.</p>
<p>Get rid of the thieving pollies and Bob&#8217;s ya uncle!!</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Fraser</title>
		<link>http://www.moneymorning.com.au/20091002/shape-of-us-economy-shows-that-spending-your-way-out-of-depression-doesnt-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-1292</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Fraser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 06:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com.au/?p=2316#comment-1292</guid>
		<description>cb - Thanks - good link.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cb &#8211; Thanks &#8211; good link.</p>
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		<title>By: cb</title>
		<link>http://www.moneymorning.com.au/20091002/shape-of-us-economy-shows-that-spending-your-way-out-of-depression-doesnt-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-1291</link>
		<dc:creator>cb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 03:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com.au/?p=2316#comment-1291</guid>
		<description>http://www.abc.net.au/insidebusiness/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/insidebusiness/" rel="nofollow">http://www.abc.net.au/insidebusiness/</a></p>
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		<title>By: cb</title>
		<link>http://www.moneymorning.com.au/20091002/shape-of-us-economy-shows-that-spending-your-way-out-of-depression-doesnt-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-1290</link>
		<dc:creator>cb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 03:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com.au/?p=2316#comment-1290</guid>
		<description>Kris, You might consider viewing this commentary by Alan Kohler on the subject of house prices. It confirms that prices here are high indeed, but it also points out some relevant differences between the US and Australian property markets, one of them being that there was a massive overbuilding of new homes and condos in the US, while, if anything, for four years running, the opposite has been the case here. Your audience here would be most interested to see, I should think, to see you address Kohler&#039;s comments and observations. 

Dismissing him as just another spruiker would not wash, I would suggest. At the very least, you owe it to your readership to give detailed and serious consideration to what seem to be more and more compelling reasons to doubt what appears to be the Sayce-Danning-Cowie line on an imminent price crash. 
Is it a coincidence that all three of you should be so convinced that Australia will have the same outcome as the US, in spite of several fundamental differences between the two markets - differences that, you and Co. fail to acknowledge and dismiss out of hand. 

So as to make it easier for you, these would be the key ones to address: 
1. The US (and other places like Spain), had gone through several years of a speculative building mania of houses and condos prior to the crash. Australia has not. 
2. The US property owner can walk away from their home and be free of the debt with their non-recourse loans. Australians cannot. (If it is not obvious, I can explain why this is highly relevant.)
3. Stimulus money in the US, by and large, is being channelled to cronies and zombie banks and is not finding its way into the real economy, as a result of which employment and the economy continures to collapse. In Australia, by and large, the opposite is the case, supporting employment and economic activity during the slump. We may disagree about whether this is a good idea or not, but its relevance to the question of an impending housing price collapse should be obvious. 
4. (I, and others,  will add more, if, and as, they come to mind, but you can make a good start with the above three.)

I look forward to seeing a decent treatment of these differences between the US and Australian contexts, and hopefully without those worn out hollow accusations about property bulls believing that house prices can only go up. None of your most serious critics, I suggest, believe that, so you can stop demeaning them, and your own writings, with your accusations that they do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kris, You might consider viewing this commentary by Alan Kohler on the subject of house prices. It confirms that prices here are high indeed, but it also points out some relevant differences between the US and Australian property markets, one of them being that there was a massive overbuilding of new homes and condos in the US, while, if anything, for four years running, the opposite has been the case here. Your audience here would be most interested to see, I should think, to see you address Kohler&#8217;s comments and observations. </p>
<p>Dismissing him as just another spruiker would not wash, I would suggest. At the very least, you owe it to your readership to give detailed and serious consideration to what seem to be more and more compelling reasons to doubt what appears to be the Sayce-Danning-Cowie line on an imminent price crash.<br />
Is it a coincidence that all three of you should be so convinced that Australia will have the same outcome as the US, in spite of several fundamental differences between the two markets &#8211; differences that, you and Co. fail to acknowledge and dismiss out of hand. </p>
<p>So as to make it easier for you, these would be the key ones to address:<br />
1. The US (and other places like Spain), had gone through several years of a speculative building mania of houses and condos prior to the crash. Australia has not.<br />
2. The US property owner can walk away from their home and be free of the debt with their non-recourse loans. Australians cannot. (If it is not obvious, I can explain why this is highly relevant.)<br />
3. Stimulus money in the US, by and large, is being channelled to cronies and zombie banks and is not finding its way into the real economy, as a result of which employment and the economy continures to collapse. In Australia, by and large, the opposite is the case, supporting employment and economic activity during the slump. We may disagree about whether this is a good idea or not, but its relevance to the question of an impending housing price collapse should be obvious.<br />
4. (I, and others,  will add more, if, and as, they come to mind, but you can make a good start with the above three.)</p>
<p>I look forward to seeing a decent treatment of these differences between the US and Australian contexts, and hopefully without those worn out hollow accusations about property bulls believing that house prices can only go up. None of your most serious critics, I suggest, believe that, so you can stop demeaning them, and your own writings, with your accusations that they do.</p>
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		<title>By: cb</title>
		<link>http://www.moneymorning.com.au/20091002/shape-of-us-economy-shows-that-spending-your-way-out-of-depression-doesnt-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-1289</link>
		<dc:creator>cb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 23:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com.au/?p=2316#comment-1289</guid>
		<description>Incidentally, here is a link to Kohler&#039;s program, for anyone wanting to check it out. There was also an excellent commentary on housing prices, interest rates and supply-demand issues, which will be well worth a watch. Last time I checked, today&#039;s show was not posted yet, so you might have to check it later: 
http://www.abc.net.au/insidebusiness/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incidentally, here is a link to Kohler&#8217;s program, for anyone wanting to check it out. There was also an excellent commentary on housing prices, interest rates and supply-demand issues, which will be well worth a watch. Last time I checked, today&#8217;s show was not posted yet, so you might have to check it later:<br />
<a href="http://www.abc.net.au/insidebusiness/" rel="nofollow">http://www.abc.net.au/insidebusiness/</a></p>
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		<title>By: cb</title>
		<link>http://www.moneymorning.com.au/20091002/shape-of-us-economy-shows-that-spending-your-way-out-of-depression-doesnt-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-1288</link>
		<dc:creator>cb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 23:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com.au/?p=2316#comment-1288</guid>
		<description>I have just finished watching Alan Kohler&#039;s &#039;Inside Business&#039; on the ABC this morning, and he had done a good interview about gold and gold stocks, and was pleased to see him finally taking a seemingly more sensible attitude towards the metals. For example, he asked a highly relevant and perfectly neutral question of his gues analyst: 
&quot;So, do you think that gold is a monetary metal, or a commodity?&quot;
To this he got a sensible answer, saying that it is both, and that going forward the pressure on the price is likely to be up, in the short term by volatility and uncertainty, and in the longer term by inflation. 

One more observation: While it is true that gold is both a monetary metal (it is money), and a commodity, it would be even more accurate to say that it is primarily a monetary metal, and only secondarily a commodity. I don&#039;t know the excact percentages involved off the top of my head, but the vast majority of annual gold production, and of above ground gold, is held/used as an investment, as a store of value, as money, and only a very small proportion is used in jewellery, dentistry and electronics. 
Does anyone here have the percentages?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have just finished watching Alan Kohler&#8217;s &#8216;Inside Business&#8217; on the ABC this morning, and he had done a good interview about gold and gold stocks, and was pleased to see him finally taking a seemingly more sensible attitude towards the metals. For example, he asked a highly relevant and perfectly neutral question of his gues analyst:<br />
&#8220;So, do you think that gold is a monetary metal, or a commodity?&#8221;<br />
To this he got a sensible answer, saying that it is both, and that going forward the pressure on the price is likely to be up, in the short term by volatility and uncertainty, and in the longer term by inflation. </p>
<p>One more observation: While it is true that gold is both a monetary metal (it is money), and a commodity, it would be even more accurate to say that it is primarily a monetary metal, and only secondarily a commodity. I don&#8217;t know the excact percentages involved off the top of my head, but the vast majority of annual gold production, and of above ground gold, is held/used as an investment, as a store of value, as money, and only a very small proportion is used in jewellery, dentistry and electronics.<br />
Does anyone here have the percentages?</p>
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		<title>By: cb</title>
		<link>http://www.moneymorning.com.au/20091002/shape-of-us-economy-shows-that-spending-your-way-out-of-depression-doesnt-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-1286</link>
		<dc:creator>cb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 14:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com.au/?p=2316#comment-1286</guid>
		<description>At some risk of speaking against my own sense of foreboding about apparently still rising house prices, I have just read through the weekend edition of the DR by Alex Cowie. I am not sure what the correct diagnosis is, but his treatment of property prices and the certainty of an imminent crash, the following three possibilities come to mind, none of them flattering to the author: 

1. The good doctor is a victim of group think. 
2. He is a hired gun for the weekend, dutifully re-gurgitating the official line of the DR and MM. 
3. Incapable of thinking for himself. 
4. Too lazy to investigate the question properly and give due consideration to contrary evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At some risk of speaking against my own sense of foreboding about apparently still rising house prices, I have just read through the weekend edition of the DR by Alex Cowie. I am not sure what the correct diagnosis is, but his treatment of property prices and the certainty of an imminent crash, the following three possibilities come to mind, none of them flattering to the author: </p>
<p>1. The good doctor is a victim of group think.<br />
2. He is a hired gun for the weekend, dutifully re-gurgitating the official line of the DR and MM.<br />
3. Incapable of thinking for himself.<br />
4. Too lazy to investigate the question properly and give due consideration to contrary evidence.</p>
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